Making the difference – involving parents better in schools

Question 21

If you do not agree that the principle of parental involvement should be retained by the involvement of parent forums in the new senior appointments processes, please give your reasons.

"1”, “We believe parents should be involved on a formal basis in appointments"

"2”, “N/A"

"3”, “See question 20"

"4”, “"

"5”, “"

"6”, “Agree - n/a"

"7”, “"

"8”, “n/a"

"9”, “"

"10”, “See above"

"11”, “"

"12”, “"

"13”, “Vital that parents are involved"

"14”, “"

"15”, “Parents should be involved"

"16”, “I agree with parent involvement in senior appointments"

"17”, “"

"18”, “N/A"

"19”, “Just leave things as they are"

"20”, “We agree with the principle of parental involvement through the current School Board mechanism"

"21”, “"

"22”, “-"

"23”, “-"

"24”, “"

"25”, “Forum should be involved and training given to forum"

"26”, “"

"27”, “Present system gives adequate representation to School Boards and should be retained"

"28”, “More strategic information is requires!"

"29”, “-"

"30”, “-"

"31”, “"

"32”, “What is driving this needless legislation?  You do not have a mandate to do so."

"33”, “N/A"

"34”, “"

"35”, “The existing system is far more effective that this extraordinary ill conceived alternative proposal will every be"

"36”, “"

"37”, “N/A"

"38”, “"

"39”, “"

"40”, “Yes"

"41”, “"

"42”, “"

"43”, “"

"44”, “"

"45”, “"

"46”, “Do agree"

"47”, “Partly, but poor performance by local authority makes for distrust of their involvement in forum"

"48”, “N/A"

"49”, “"

"50”, “"

"51”, “Current system is fine and does involve parents.  This is what the Minister has stated he wants"

"52”, “N/A"

"53”, “"

"54”, “"

"55”, “We believe scrapping the Board is a pointless exercise, costly and wasteful.  Just another badly thought out initiative"

"56”, “No interviewing panels can be too large"

"57”, “See before - employer must have control.  Privacy of applicants must be protected."

"58”, “N/A"

"59”, “"

"60”, “"

"61”, “There should be parental involvement in all appointment processes but all such parents must be properly trained"

"62”, “"

"63”, “The status quo should remain"

"64”, “"

"65”, “"

"66”, “"

"67”, “N/A"

"68”, “N/A"

"69”, “Yes we agree there should be involvement but how will we protect against single issue parents?"

"70”, “The Board agreed that the principle of parental involvement must be retained."

"71”, “"

"72”, “"

"73”, “"

"74”, “N/A"

"75”, “We agree that parental involvement in senior appointments should be retained although we disagree with parent forums"

"76”, “"

"77”, “We would wish parents still to be involved"

"78”, “Only properly trained parents should continue to be represented in Head Teacher appointments"

"79”, “We do not disagree"

"80”, “"

"81”, “I DO strongly agree that the principle of parental involvement should be retained"

"82”, “The view is that there is a need to modernise the appointments process for senior management in education but that it is important that there continues to be scope for parental involvement in the process."

"83”, “"

"84”, “Current Board system should be retained"

"85”, “Agree with the principle of parental involvement - but should be more than just involvement - the current system where they have roles and responsibilities and equal say in appointments should be retained."

"86”, “"

"87”, “"

"88”, “N/A"

"89”, “"

"90”, “"

"91”, “Because we have school boards that work effectively at present."

"92”, “We, as a school board, representing the views of parents whose children attend (our) school, are unanimously rejecting the new proposal, and are against abolishment of the Scottish School Board 1988 Act."

"93”, “Present system is fair."

"94”, “We agree"

"95”, “Blank"

"96”, “"

"97”, “Blank"

"98”, “We feel that the boundaries would become too lax."

"99”, “See QS20 ( School Board participation in appointments is a valuable asset. )"

"100”, “We do agree"

"101”, “Blank."

"102”, “We agree that the principle of parental involvement is paramount."

"103”, “I am concerned that forums will be groupings of parents with little focus on issues to hand.  This may be made up of small groups and not representative of the business."

"104”, “Blank"

"105”, “School Boards are best option available."

"106”, “Blank"

"107”, “Blank"

"108”, “Current system works well."

"109”, “Lack of in-depth knowledge of skills required for the post."

"110”, “We agree there should be continued parental involvement as there is with existing boards."

"111”, “Blank"

"112”, “"

"113”, “What is meant by parental involvement ?  There is a GUARANTEE of parental REPRESENTATION under the existing arrangements."

"114”, “Blank"

"115”, “N / A"

"116”, “I agree with the principle, however I do not see that change is necessary."

"117”, “Agreed"

"118”, “Parental input is invaluable."

"119”, “Blank"

"120”, “We agree"

"121”, “Parental involvement should be retained by the involvement of parent forums in the new senior appointments processes."

"122”, “We do agree"

"123”, “Blank"

"124”, “If its not already broken, then don't break it to fix it."

"125”, “I feel that both parents and staff should both be involved."

"126”, “I don't disagree with parent involvement but just do not agree with the proposed changes."

"127”, “N / A"

"128”, “Blank"

"129”, “We believe that the suggested format is too looses and will struggle to achieve sufficient parental involvement in some areas.  As a Catholic School we believe that the Church should retain the right to co-opt members.
We believe that the formal school board structure with the support of the SSBA will best support the school and 'tweaking' the current act is the best course."

"130”, “We are wholly in favour of parental involvement.  This is already achieved to its maximum potential by the existing system."

"131”, “Blank"

"132”, “Blank"

"133”, “Blank"

"134”, “Blank"

"135”, “N / A"

"136”, “Blank"

"137”, “Blank"

"138”, “Blank"

"139”, “N / A"

"140”, “Parental involvement should be retained."

"141”, “We do agree"

"142”, “Existing system works, why change."

"143”, “Agree"

"144”, “Parents should be involved"

"145”, “"

"146”, “"

"147”, “N / A as we do not want forums and want school boards to remain."

"148”, “No"

"149”, “None"

"150”, “N / A"

"151”, “N / A"

"152”, “The principal of parental involvement should be retained by School Boards and not parent forums."

"153”, “What will be the new senior appointments process."

"154”, “I agree"

"155”, “Blank"

"156”, “?"

"157”, “Involvement of school boards should be sufficient.  Parents have opportunity for involvement through boards."

"158”, “Blank"

"159”, “"

"160”, “N / A"

"161”, “See QS 20  ( No - the existing involvement should continue in selection process & should be a requirement.  Built into the legislation. )"

"162”, “Blank"

"163”, “Blank"

"164”, “"

"165”, “Not willing to answer 'loaded' questions about something unnecessary."

"166”, “"

"167”, “N/A"

"168”, “We do agree with the principle of parental involvement as is the case within the status quo."

"169”, “"

"170”, “The leet should be the responsibility of Education Authority personnel but there should be more training and support."

"171”, “N/A"

"172”, “We agree with parental involvement"

"173”, “N/A"

"174”, “"

"175”, “Parents should remain involved in the senior appointments processes."

"176”, “"

"177”, “Agree with principle of parental involvement."

"178”, “It should be retained."

"179”, “"

"180”, “"

"181”, “"

"182”, “"

"183”, “"

"184”, “School Boards are already involved.  Parents should have a say!"

"185”, “"

"186”, “"

"187”, “I do agree strongly."

"188”, “Blank"

"189”, “The parents give a more local / personal view to the children’s education and not merely on the financial and managerial duties of the education authority.  If this was lost then it would be to the detriment of the child / school."

"190”, “I agree that current procedure is acceptable."

"191”, “"

"192”, “Yes - retain"

"193”, “"

"194”, “We do agree but only in the minority.  There has to be major EA involvement"

"195”, “"

"196”, “"

"197”, “"

"198”, “Consistency is required.  Should be impartiality in selection of senior appointments.  A degree of knowledge and training is required to sit on a panel.  What if too many or not enough parents wish to sit on the panel."

"199”, “"

"200”, “"

"201”, “We agree with parental involvement although we disagree with School Forums."

"202”, “"

"203”, “"

"204”, “Do still agree"

"205”, “Parental involvement should be retained provided adequate training has been undertaken before sitting on interview panel."

"206”, “Blank"

"207”, “Blank"

"208”, “Blank"

"209”, “I think that currently, the parents, church, education authority are well represented in the senior appointments process and see no need for change."

"210”, “Blank"

"211”, “Blank"

"212”, “N / A"

"213”, “Parental representation, as under the current system, should be continued."

"214”, “N / A"

"215”, “Do agree"

"216”, “School board representation"

"217”, “Blank"

"218”, “School Board has worked well over the years and more parents involved would cause more problems with decision making."

"219”, “Blank"

"220”, “Blank"

"221”, “N / A"

"222”, “It should be retained."

"223”, “As per the response to question 20 ( but this alone is not a justification for the bill.  This bill does not guarantee strong parental and other stakeholder involvement in such appointments.)  we believe that strong parental and other stakeholder involvement in such appointments should be guaranteed in legislation."

"224”, “"

"225”, “It is vital that there is parental involvement in the appointment of head teachers.
Involvement in other appointments within schools should only be at the invitation if Heads."

"226”, “We do NOT agree with the proposed Parent Forums."

"227”, “We do agree"

"228”, “Leave as school board."

"229”, “N / A"

"230”, “Blank"

"231”, “We agree.  As long as there is a good relationship between the Educational Authority, School, School Board, PTA's and parents, etc."

"232”, “"

"233”, “Agree it should be retained."

"234”, “N / A"

"235”, “We want parental involvement to continue, in a structured manner as already exists within the school board."

"236”, “N/A"

"237”, “"

"238”, “Blank"

"239”, “Blank"

"240”, “Yes, as parents should have a say.  Training may be required.
What does ' involvement' of parent forums mean ?
Would we have some level of involvement as at present ?"

"241”, “Blank"

"242”, “Agreeable"

"243”, “Board / Parent involvement should be retained, however depends on format of parental forum."

"244”, “Parents should receive suitable training to allow them to participate meaningfully."

"245”, “Again if ""New Forum"" is a must then it must have representative on interview panels."

"246”, “"

"247”, “"

"248”, “We did agree"

"249”, “I have no comment.  The appointment of Head Teachers and Deputies in my opinion, should not be part of the forum remit to discuss."

"250”, “?"

"251”, “-"

"252”, “"

"253”, “"

"254”, “We agree with the principle of parental involvement."

"255”, “N/A"

"256”, “N/A"

"257”, “"

"258”, “Parents should definitely be involved."

"259”, “Do parents have correct skills?"

"260”, “"

"261”, “Parent forums should have the same involvement as School Boards at present."

"262”, “Parents could be involved if on a development board basis"

"263”, “No issues"

"264”, “"

"265”, “We would prefer to enhance current procedures, maintaining and enhancing parental involvement in decision making"

"266”, “We do not disagree"

"267”, “"

"268”, “"

"269”, “"

"270”, “Existing arrangements satisfactory"

"271”, “I do not agree.  Education have more experience in appointing suitable candidates for senior posts.  I believe they do a good job so why change it."

"272”, “We consider that the current structure should be retained until more specific information is issues."

"273”, “"

"274”, “As each parent forum could have different rules then it would not be equitable for them to e involved in senior appointments.  The existing School Board arrangements provide a level playing field."

"275”, “People who have not been elected by the School's parent body cannot be relied upon to represent the wider body - they will have their own agendas."

"276”, “Of course parent involvement should be retained."

"277”, “If these forums are in place, then it should be allowed a say on appointments.  But how will this be formalised? At present the elected School Board member, if properly trained is allowed to take part in interview and is involved in a selection process. This is fine in the context of relatively small School Boards but how will be achieved in a possibly much larger forum.  How will representatives be chosen and what training will they receive?"

"278”, “There is room for a more flexible approach in the present system.  The present system is very geared towards the 45 minute interview.  This is good for those with good interviewing skills, which doesn't always mean the right Head Teacher for the job.  Perhaps a more open-ended and comprehensive approach is required.  We are happy to let the experts in these fields guide our thinking."

"279”, “As School Boards are involved in senior appointments this power should be transferred to parent forums."

"280”, “"

"281”, “"

"282”, “Blank"

"283”, “Parental involvement should definitely continue in this process."

"284”, “Comments were : school boards are doing a good job and can only see trouble if too many parents are ........ the head teachers; parent forum and how it is set up and organised is too vague therefore should not be involved in senior appointment.  School Boards are already involved in 'appointments'."

"285”, “"

"286”, “NB It is the view of (our) school board that these questions are too prescriptive in nature and do not give an opportunity to address some fundamental matters raised by the proposed new bill as drafted.  Please see our response in the additional comments box."

"287”, “Blank"

"288”, “Our school has a very good PTA and School Board already and to change a successful partnership seems ridiculous."

"289”, “"

"290”, “"

"291”, “We, as a school board, representing the views of parents whose children attend (our)Primary School, are unanimously rejecting the new proposal, and are against abolishment of the Scottish School Board 1988 Act."

"292”, “"

"293”, “"

"294”, “See answers above. (We believe that the present system of parental representation on appointment panels is working. If a new flexible system 'waters down' parental input to appointing senior staff in schools, we would be against this.)"

"295”, “On the contrary, I believe that School Board or Parental Forums should be involved."

"296”, “"

"297”, “No reply."

"298”, “"

"299”, “"

"300”, “"

"301”, “"

"302”, “"

"303”, “"

"304”, “Based on the draft consultation, it is not possible to state the reasonableness or otherwise of parent forum involvement in the appointment system. This principally reflects the absence of detail on the proposed forums' constitutional duties and responsibilities and the structure of such groups within the school community.
"

"305”, “"

"306”, “Yes we agree there should be involvement but how will we protect against single issue parents?
"

"307”, “"

"308”, “"

"309”, “"

"310”, “Not applicable, see above."

"311”, “N/A"

"312”, “"

"313”, “"

"314”, “"

"315”, “"

"316”, “We accept the principle that parent representatives should be involved."

"317”, “We do agree that parents should be involved."

"318”, “"

"319”, “Stop jobs for the boys!"

"320”, “"

"321”, “"

"322”, “Parents should be involved along with others."

"323”, “Parental involvement via appointed bodies must be maintained in the selection process of senior appointments within schools, to allow a spread of opinion to be taken into account."

"324”, “We agree"

"325”, “I do agree"

"326”, “N/A"

"327”, “"

"328”, “Yes - agree"

"329”, “"

"330”, “"

"331”, “"

"332”, “"

"333”, “"

"334”, “"

"335”, “"

"336”, “I do agree that the principle of parental involvement should be retained by the involvement of parent forums but that the decision making process should be decided by the education authority."

"337”, “Parental involvement should be retained."

"338”, “"

"339”, “"

"340”, “"

"341”, “See previous answers. - We believe that the present system of parental representation on appointment panels is working.  If a new flexible system 'waters down' parental involvement to appointing senior staff in schools, we would be against this."

"342”, “(Our) School Board believe that parents should be involved in the appointment of all staff, which it currently is. What provisions are there in the Bill for training Forum members to sit on interview panels? At present Board members receive training to enable them to sit on interview panels. "

"343”, “Again your question takes as its base, the establishment of parent forums. We do agree with the principle of parental involvement.  There is more than just involvement needed.  The present system, where as members of the Board, parents have roles and responsibilities and equal say in appointments, should be retained.
"

"344”, “We do agree with the principle. We also see Church approval as important in appointments in denominational schools. "

"345”, “N/A"

"346”, “No issues"

"347”, “We do agree."

"348”, “Refer q. 20 above."

"349”, “Blank"

"350”, “Parental involvement in the appointment of senior appointment is absolutely essential and School Boards have fulfilled this role very effectively over the years.  In terms of the very decentralized system of Parental Forums being advocated by the Scottish               Executive, there will need to be guidance published on who will be eligible to represent the parents in a school in an appointments process.  School Board members were all subject to an open election process, whilst this will not necessarily be the case with Parental Forums."

"351”, “"

"352”, “"

"353”, “"

"354”, “It is valuable to have a complaints procedure both for parents and teachers- This Bill will cause a breakdown between parents and teachers."

"355”, “Yes we do agree but see also our answer to Q20."

"356”, “"

"357”, “See A20 ( We found that the current system works very effectively.  SB involvement means that parents and the community are consulted. ) "

"358”, “There should be clear obligations as regards the nature of parental involvement in the new senior appointments process. Parents (whether as members of the existing School Boards or proposed Parent Forum should have the right to active involvement in decision making (a vote) rather than simply to be consulted."

"359”, “"

"360”, “"

"361”, “See answer to question 20 and introductory paragraph.  ( The bill makes point about Head Teacher selection process which indicates Minister could influence selection criteria.  Minister might say don't want parents involved and all sorts etc which means this is forced on selection board.  Selection of Head Teacher must relate not only to ability of candidate but need of school. ) "

"362”, “N/A  SEE 20 ABOVE
"

"363”, “"

"364”, “"

"365”, “"

"366”, “N / A"

"367”, “"

"368”, “"

"369”, “"

"370”, “The parents forum should be represented at senior appointments processes because staff are key to good working relationships with both pupils and parents - it is a bit of empowerment to parents."

"371”, “Parental involvement should be retained by the involvement of School Board members as currently happens in (our Region)."

"372”, “We wish to keep involvement"

"373”, “N/A"

"374”, “1 group - parental involvement retained at consultative level.  Parents not responsible for choice - this is unfair, but one off interview is poor system"

"375”, “"

"376”, “Parents are involved at the moment.  With this new forum everyone could lose out on working as a team."

"377”, “As parent forums could be numerous within each school and if you are suggesting each one could be represented in the appointment process of teaching staff then we would strongly disagree as this could turn out to be a very large panel with many under qualified people who understand the role of a teacher instead of the many parents who mainly have their individual child's needs and requirements in mind?"

"378”, “Parents should retain involvement"

"379”, “Again - your question takes as it s base the establishment of parent forums.  We do agree with the principle of parental involvement.  There is more than just involvement needed.  The present system where, as members of the Board, parents have roles and responsibilities and equal say in appointments should be retained."

"380”, “"

"381”, “Under the present system School Boards have training this process and it is not clear if forums will retain this training."

"382”, “N/A"

"383”, “"

"384”, “"

"385”, “"

"386”, “"

"387”, “"

"388”, “"

"389”, “"

"390”, “"

"391”, “Parental involvement must be retained."

"392”, “"

"393”, “Parental involvement in appointing senior staff should be retained."

"394”, “I want parental involvement retained."

"395”, “"

"396”, “"

"397”, “"

"398”, “I think they should.  Parents give an excellent balance to a panel. What about a School Clerk?"

"399”, “Am against parent forums.  Everything too vague.  Where are the rules and regulation?  All too airy fairy which could possibly end in a 'mild' chaos;  The education system does not need this.  Has enough challenges to contend with."

"400”, “I am against parent forums as I think the proposals are too vague.  There seems to be no rules and regulations - no obligation to keep records.  Head Teacher doesn't have to attend meetings - it all seems too 'free'."

"401”, “Existing system ok"

"402”, “"

"403”, “"

"404”, “We regard it as critically important that at least some parents take a direct role in the interview and selection process that selects the individual of Head Teacher or Deputy Head Teacher.  The relationship senior managers in a school have to parents in the interview and appointment process tests that in a way that no other process could.  We regard the maintenance of this right as a litmus test of the good faith of the Scottish Executive in their claim of wishing to strengthen parental involvement in schools."

"405”, “Yes. The purpose of School Boards is to improve education in their school and to work with the Education Authority. Involvement in this process ensures that there is appropriate involvement.
"

"406”, “As stated in 20, we agree that the parent body should retain its involvement in the appointment process.
"

"407”, “Parents must remain involved in the senior appointment processes as outlined above."

"408”, “"

"409”, “see above"

"410”, “"

"411”, “"

"412”, “"

"413”, “"

"414”, “Blank"

"415”, “"

"416”, “"

"417”, “"

"418”, “"

"419”, “"

"420”, “"

"421”, “"

"422”, “"

"423”, “Yes. Parents should continue to have an influence in the recruitment process."

"424”, “Blank."

"425”, “"

"426”, “Parents should definitely be involved in the new senior appointments processes.
"

"427”, “Blank"

"428”, “Parental involvement in the appointment of senior appointment is absolutely essential and School Boards have fulfilled this role very effectively over the years.

In terms of the very decentralized system of Parental Forums being advocated by the Scottish Executive, there will need to be guidance published on who will be eligible to represent the parents in a school in an appointments process. School Board members were all subject to an open election process, whilst this will not necessarily be the case with Parental Forums.
"

"429”, “School boards should continue to be consulted, as parental involvement is essential."

"430”, “See question 20. ( We agree that the current single interview procedure of selection for Head teachers and Deputy Head Teachers should be replaced.  A system should be put in place, which relates to that which currently pertains in industry.  We consider that in any system introduced it is essential that parents should continue to be involved in final selection. )  It is emphasised that it is essential for parents to continue to be involved."

"431”, “We feel strongly that parental involvement in the senior appointments process is important and necessary.  We feel that this function would be best retained by modified School Boards and would like to see further debate and consultation on how a parent forum (along the lines of our response to Question 6) would also be involved in this process."

"432”, “Blank"

"433”, “Blank"

"434”, “The Board believes that the principle of parental involvement should be retained in the senior appointments process by parent forums.  Parents should be involved in the direction of the school and given the opportunity to satisfy themselves in regard to the suitability of candidates.  Such representation will also ensure that the person appointed has an understanding and awareness of parental views and of the ethos of the school before accepting the position."

"435”, “Because we have not agreed to the abolition of School Boards that currently are involved in appointment processes, it makes it difficult to agree to the idea of forums being involved in the appointment processes at all.  This is specifically the case if these bodies are as unstructured and ""flexible"" as the Draft Bill implies.

The reason for this is because we feel that the principle of parental involvement should be retained by School Boards who are better placed to fulfil this role with regard to appointments processes owing to the nature of their structures.

School Boards consist of a representative group of member's-parental/co-opted/PTA reps/staff/church in the case of Catholic schools and may receive advice from staff and councillors or any co-opted members deemed by the Board to be beneficial to the school when making such important decisions. School Boards are also provided with training and guidance if required to carry out senior appointments processes.
"

"436”, “Not applicable."

"437”, “No issues"

"438”, “The existing arrangements are generally satisfactory.  We do agree that parents should continue to be involved in the senior appointment selection process."

"439”, “Blank"

"440”, “We do not agree that only the PRINCIPLE of parental involvement should be retained but that PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT should be retained.  This section needs re-wording so that this is absolutely clear."

"441”, “Blank"

"442”, “Blank"

"443”, “"

"444”, “"

"445”, “"

"446”, “N/A"

"447”, “Blank"

"448”, “"

"449”, “Need to be involved."

"450”, “Blank."

"451”, “Retain current school board."

"452”, “"

"453”, “Blank"

"454”, “The involvement of Parent Forums is essential."

"455”, “"

"456”, “"

"457”, “Blank"

"458”, “Blank"

"459”, “N/A"

"460”, “It is unworkable in an ""informal"" parent forum."

"461”, “Needs practice as well as principle."

"462”, “Blank"

"463”, “No, they are not necessarily experienced teachers, educators or social workers.  You don't choose who your dental practice appoints as a new partner just because you have got teeth."

"464”, “Explained in prior question.  (  We find the status quo satisfactory.  )"

"465”, “Blank"

"466”, “Refer to 20 (  Yes - but a level of consultation for parents  )"

"467”, “We agree to parental involvement"

"468”, “Parents once trained, should be on the interview panel and be part of the senior appointment panel."

"469”, “We agree"

"470”, “Do agree with principle but would need detail of how, before deciding on agreement with Bill."

"471”, “Blank"

"472”, “Parental involvement is OK."

"473”, “I feel that a parent forum, including several co-opted members could be very biased for or against a candidate.  How are they to judge strengths and weaknesses ?"

"474”, “Parents should be consulted and involved in appointments of senior staff."

"475”, “We agree that parental involvement should be retained in the senior appointments processes as long as parents receive the correct balance of parents to professionals on the panel."

"476”, “IF school boards were to be replaced by parent forums, then they should have the same level of involvement in senior appointments as school boards."

"477”, “Agree"

"478”, “We do agree."

"479”, “I definitely agree that parents should be involved in the senior appointments process but school boards are a fairer, more representative body than the proposed parent forums."

"480”, “N/A"

"481”, “Professional personnel should be in the majority with one representative from the school board."

"482”, “N/A"

"483”, “Parent forums must be involved in new senior appointments."

"484”, “Improvements referred as in question 20 will still retain parental involvement."

"485”, “Blank"


Parent Forums - Draft Bill


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