Making the difference – involving parents better in schools

Question 9

The draft Bill leaves the forum’s ‘constitution’ to be determined locally’ either by the parents or initially under the education authority scheme. Do you agree with the approach? If not, what alternative would you suggest and why ?

"1”, “No"

"2”, “No - See Question 4 - flexibility of this nature within the existing framework for School Boards would be welcome"

"3”, “No - see above!"

"4”, “Difficult to say. Doesn't make it sound as 'informal' as proposed."

"5”, “"

"6”, “Yes - agree - local demographic/facilities/funding would affect structure naturally"

"7”, “Again - we feel this is open to abuse.  If there is no agenda, minutes etc it will be a 'talking shop' and he who shouts loudest wins.  There will be no one to appeal to if things get out of hand."

"8”, “Yes"

"9”, “As above"

"10”, “N/A"

"11”, “Under the School Board constitution there can be discussion on any topic at present.  There seems no need to change this and further strengthens our view that School Boards do not need to be replaced."

"12”, “"

"13”, “The LA should have a basic framework"

"14”, “If this is the only forward, then Yes"

"15”, “Need central ""backbone"" constitution - possibly with local tweaks"

"16”, “The 'Constitution' should be based on formal, published guidance/regulations but allow for local adjustments where the formal format is not practical."

"17”, “Suggest minimum requirements to be build on to suit specific school/area needs"

"18”, “Suggest minimum national constitution which can be build on/'tweaked' to suit specific school/area needs"

"19”, “No - it should be universal and come from the Scottish Executive"

"20”, “A constitution particular to a school is useful.  It could provide a framework for meetings but must be flexible to some degree."

"21”, “No"

"22”, “No - the constitution should be agreed on a formal/central basis and be standardised and  adopted by each forum"

"23”, “We agree that education authority should provide constitution"

"24”, “"

"25”, “Set constitution with guidelines and local changes to fit in"

"26”, “No see question 6"

"27”, “No"

"28”, “N/A"

"29”, “Draft Bill is too vague.  There would need to be structure and guidance and some uniformity in the setting up of constitutions - certainly guidance would be needed to establish ""appropriate"" function of the forum"

"30”, “As above"

"31”, “"

"32”, “No - leave situation as it is"

"33”, “You cannot have the liberty to crease constitutions progressively that will entrench cliques."

"34”, “This will not work"

"35”, “This is a complete nonsense.  You cannot have a random process for a constitution.  This will remove any real authority from School Boards and PTAs.  It will however place control ultimately and entirely in the hands of the local Education Authority.  Is this truly the hidden agenda.  LEAVE the existing system in place.  Parental involvement will simply decrease"

"36”, “No - keep School Boards"

"37”, “No - to back the structure of the School Board as it stands"

"38”, “"

"39”, “"

"40”, “Yes - but some concerns which could be resolved by a constitution determined by or with local authority"

"41”, “This seems to be the implementation of a 'Divide and Rule' policy!  Unless all are 'singing from the same hymn sheet' there is no strength or teeth to fight or oppose that with which we disagree"

"42”, “No - The Bill should prescribe a core structure for all Boards.  However there should be flexibility for Boards to appoint members in a way that is relevant to the needs of each particular school."

"43”, “No - far too loose approach, how do you manage 50 parents with 50 different ideas"

"44”, “Education Authority scheme"

"45”, “Yes - a minimum standard constitution should be set by the education authorities but each school should be allowed to develop this to suit its own individual needs"

"46”, “Some flexibility needed - but more importantly so is some formal basic common element to the constitution"

"47”, “No - parents should seek independent body"

"48”, “Yes - with room for change where necessary"

"49”, “"

"50”, “"

"51”, “No- Leave as status quo.  If it's not broken don't fix it.  We would see our Board as currently very effective"

"52”, “No - under the proposals for parental forums there is no obligation to set agendas, keep minutes, to stand down in turn or to include Head Teachers, staff or local authority at meetings.  To create a forum only requires one parent and there appears to be no requirement for open, honest accountability to the wider majority of parents.  Each individual school will be left to ""re-invent the wheel"" by working on an individual constitution.  This will be daunting for volunteers and challenging and costly for Education Authorities to provide advice and guidance to this huge range of forums.  In contract the Board system uses tried and tested principles - democratic election, properly conducted, recorded and communication meetings, a system where people regularly stand down to allow others to contribute and where self interest must be declared.  However, a degree of local flexibility is urgently needed to allow Boards to be more inclusive.  They need for example -
1. to be allowed to set the numbers of parent members to be elected locally
2.  to be allowed to co-opt to benefit fully from the local skills base
3.  to ensure parents of nursery children can opt to be represented by the School Board of their choice where a nursery covers more than 1 school
4. allow all parents (other than if also the Head Teacher) to be eligible to stand as parent members.
"

"53”, “School Boards have a very clear 'constitution' and this works.  Why change?  Some parents would struggle making up a 'constitution'"

"54”, “"

"55”, “No - there should be some uniformity"

"56”, “No"

"57”, “No - a basic constitutional framework is needed.  Why not use the existing basis for School Boards?"

"58”, “The existing School Board legislation should be modified."

"59”, “"

"60”, “Yes"

"61”, “No, we do not agree with this approach as it is wide open to abuse by vested interests or single issue groups.  There would be a lack of consistency throughout even individual councils and too much flexibility could lead to an unmanageable situation.  How would transparency of the forum's activities be guaranteed.  If parents did not have the right to attend the forum and now formal reporting existed how would parents know what was being done in their name."

"62”, “"

"63”, “There is a need for a national core element in the constitution"

"64”, “If the new organisation does not have a constitution or similar type of basic framework the flexibility which is being championed as one of its strengths will mean the organisation completely lacking structure and it is unlikely to succeed."

"65”, “"

"66”, “"

"67”, “We do not agree with this proposal and are concerned that it might result in there being no consistent structures and procedures in place across all of an authority's schools that will allow for all parents' involvement in their children's education to be promoted and protected.  We are not convinced that the existing constitutions of School Boards are redundant."

"68”, “No - drafting constitutions is a most boring activity and will render most participants comatose"

"69”, “Initial structure should be well defined and not subject to any change.  Once constituted there could be a degree of local autonomy for parts of the Board.  This would do away with the idea of one size fits all."

"70”, “We agree the constitution must be determined locally, however there is a need for a uniform structure, with allowances for flexibility to suit individual forums."

"71”, “"

"72”, “"

"73”, “"

"74”, “No - could lead to confusion and inconsistency - needs a structure as currently"

"75”, “No - present system is fine"

"76”, “If forum groups go ahead authority would have to provide guidelines to ensure uniformity across their council/education area"

"77”, “We do not agree with the open forum and opt for continuation of School Boards"

"78”, “No - as Parent Forums are only a proposal so we cannot agree."

"79”, “There could be national core elements that allow for local flexibility.  Education Authorities should not be allowed to prescribe the types of constitution acceptable"

"80”, “No.  If this legislation does come to pass then authorities will have to do this.  If apathy rules at the moment due to the election process, how can you expect parents to get to grips with preparing Constitutions!!??"

"81”, “No - current format is working well if supported"

"82”, “The present system of a National Constitution with legal backing is the preferred option.  If change is necessary it should be by amendment to the existing School Boards (Scotland) Act 1988"

"83”, “"

"84”, “No - chaotic if everyone doing their own thing with no framework.  Needs framework so all have broadly similar constitutions otherwise no continuity at all between school - very difficult for education authorities to administer/support"

"85”, “No - each parent forum should have the same constitution to ensure a degree of uniformity, at least within a LE area.  School Boards have this uniformity - this makes it easy to understand the role and responsibilities of the Board - if each Forum has a different constitution this leaves the system open to very wide interpretation, leading to misunderstanding.  The new forums, if adopted, need to be easily understood - organisations that work have firm structures not the woolly suggestions included in the draft bill."

"86”, “Yes but provide sample outline and adapt for each school"

"87”, “"

"88”, “The aim should be: Central framework - local constitution.  The Local Authority should support such activity under the umbrella of a statutory constitution and process."

"89”, “"

"90”, “"

"91”, “Statutory requirements for the number of parent members, length of service, plus centrally proposed guidelines for board activities, are invaluable, but each board should generate its own agenda."

"92”, “We, as a school board, representing the views of parents whose children attend (our) school, are unanimously rejecting the new proposal, and are against abolishment of the Scottish School Board 1988 Act."

"93”, “National approach is better."

"94”, “We would feel very dubious about the outcome of such an arrangement."

"95”, “We feel that this should, initially, be done under the education authority scheme."

"96”, “"

"97”, “Need strong framework to ensure balances / checks & stop parents being restricted."

"98”, “We feel a joint approach would be best"

"99”, “As above, because it is an effective and proven vehicle.  (Keep school board system intact.)"

"100”, “Bill should provide loose constitution and educational authorities should make one - allow for only a little change between  schools."

"101”, “Yes we agree"

"102”, “The present Board's constitution is determined locally and this should apply to any constituted body."

"103”, “I would leave it to the authority.  I would question if the forums would be available to deal with this."

"104”, “Yes"

"105”, “No, school board should determine forums."

"106”, “Same as above - ( Leave system as school boards. )"

"107”, “I don't agree.  I think it should be across all authorities to give every school the same rights, etc."

"108”, “The constitution should be standardised and then personalised."

"109”, “No"

"110”, “There needs to be a basic constitution for all parent representation.  There would however need to be some flexibility to allow for local adjustments.  We believe that parent representative bodies should be referred to by a standardised title as many different ""every day"" names would be very confusing."

"111”, “Few parents understand the legal implications of a constitution.  Initially they should ALL be determined by EA scheme with some leeway at a later stage for making ""local"" alterations."

"112”, “"

"113”, “No need to change present constitution."

"114”, “Yes"

"115”, “Yes, if it is absolutely necessary to change the constitution."

"116”, “Surely there must be some continuity and not a 'do as you like' approach.  The Education Authority should decide the constitution with input from interested parties.  A broad constitution is needed for all, but can be amended at each school if required."

"117”, “I suggest that the authority should initially propose a small number of alternative model constitutions on which all parents would be invited to vote.  Subsequent constitutional changes could be proposed by the forum itself but would require ratification by a majority of parents and would be checked for legality by the authority."

"118”, “The basic framework of the constitution must be determined by the Education Authority otherwise there would be too many different constitutions in the same authority."

"119”, “Blank"

"120”, “The school is the priority not the forum.  The forum could be self centred."

"121”, “There should be a ""model"" constitution set out.  This should not be left to be determined locally."

"122”, “We suggest that the ""constitution"" should be determined by parents and the education authority scheme."

"123”, “Yes, National / Local authority draft for us to tweak."

"124”, “Yes"

"125”, “I feel the school should determine the constitution."

"126”, “School boards have prepared their own constitution for approval and this could continue.  The approval will we hope ensure that there is a pulling in the same direction."

"127”, “No, prefer to have a nationally agreed constitution."

"128”, “Blank"

"129”, “We are undecided in this question."

"130”, “The constitution of any forum must be determined externally, preferably by the Education Authority, in consultation with the school, as is presently the case."

"131”, “We think there must be a GENERAL (not individual) basic constitution, although provision could be made for some local  variation which does not detract from the core structure."

"132”, “Blank"

"133”, “This is the best approach at this time."

"134”, “Yes"

"135”, “No, because we do not agree there is a need for a forum."

"136”, “Blank"

"137”, “No - could cause confusion within education authority with each school having different constitutions, certain guidelines necessary for every parent forum."

"138”, “No - some legal guidelines recommended for EVERY board to follow."

"139”, “We disagree with the draft bill but if forum set up the education authority should have consistent 'constitution'."

"140”, “No - unified constitutions already exist with school board legislation."

"141”, “No we would need common guidelines."

"142”, “If we have to change (we) would agree."

"143”, “No.  We need formal structure and common constitution for all."

"144”, “No - head teacher to be involved.  Some sort of regulation of what is in the forum's constitution as is currently in school board set-up."

"145”, “"

"146”, “"

"147”, “No.  Keep school boards."

"148”, “None"

"149”, “None"

"150”, “Yes"

"151”, “N / A"

"152”, “Not in favour of parent forum - any constitution for parental involvement should be a nationally agreed one."

"153”, “Yes"

"154”, “I agree"

"155”, “Blank"

"156”, “Constitution should be determined by education authority, but parent forum should be able to alter / change to suit individual needs."

"157”, “N / A"

"158”, “No, the forums constitution should be determined collectively with parents school representatives and the education authorities."

"159”, “"

"160”, “No. Status quo."

"161”, “No - there should be a national framework with local adjustments."

"162”, “Do not agree with this approach.
School boards structure ample.  Standard practice across country ensures same criterion for all schools / parents."

"163”, “Yes - again the education authority should provide a 'model' constitution which could be adapted if necessary."

"164”, “If a constitution is decided locally then there may be no checks or balances put in place and people may chose to pursue their own agendas rather than working for a greater good.  This seems to be a bad idea, no evidence has been produced to show otherwise, e.g. f there are no stipulations that minutes are produced then those who are unable to come to meetings will be excluded from being part of the forum.  For parents who tend to move between schools a lot (e.g. travelling people) then this localised, fluid system will make such moves more difficult for parents to be involved due to unfamiliarity and yet I though that the aim was to help minorities like this.  The existing School Board constitution could be amended and used to greater satisfaction."

"165”, “Not willing to answer 'loaded' questions about something unnecessary."

"166”, “"

"167”, “No this would be too difficult to manage.  There would be no continuity between Authorities."

"168”, “We do not agree. We are happy with the present situation and feel that any constitution should be drafted by the Education Authority"

"169”, “No - No consistency across Scotland.  Structure is essential as in other organisations.  Agenda and minuted meetings essential for inclusiveness and dissemination of information."

"170”, “The Education Authority should be involved"

"171”, “The constitution should be agreed locally under the present statutory process."

"172”, “No this would leave the constitution open to widespread abuse,"

"173”, “No there has to be a template constitution common to all forums in order to establish the organisation with parents then perfecting local requirements."

"174”, “If parents are scared off by election process surely forming own constitution would be more worrying.  If it is to be drawn up by EA what's wrong with what's there already?"

"175”, “No - need proper legislation, so that any acts done by the parents have proper standing."

"176”, “Yes"

"177”, “Present system is adequate.  Changing the name won't encourage more parents to become involved."

"178”, “It's difficult to answer this question without any real indication of what the roles and responsibilities would be."

"179”, “No absolutely not.  The current School Board set up allows for a legal limit of time to be served by any member.  The proposals are too vague and could allow any one member or group to hijack the forum to their own ends, or could allow a number of opposing groups to be formed thus splitting the parent body."

"180”, “"

"181”, “"

"182”, “We do not agree with this.  Again there needs to be structure and transparency as described above."

"183”, “The prospect of having to write a constitution could be a huge obstacle to attracting new members to a parent forum.  The Bill should include a brief structure of what should be included to give clarity - but wish enough room for specific details to be determined locally."

"184”, “Certainly not - build on what we have already."

"185”, “"

"186”, “Yes"

"187”, “No (- Uniform and prescriptive constitutions.)"

"188”, “No.  There needs to be structure & Nationally - do not agree with Forum, but if it is going ahead - it has to take into account the work of School Boards at present and work from this. "

"189”, “Yes"

"190”, “No.  Simpler for Authorities if all groups work to the same guidelines."

"191”, “"

"192”, “No - Should be standardised for all School Boards with increased flexibility"

"193”, “It should be decided at Authority level -  they having had due consultation with Boards/PTAs and parents."

"194”, “No we want to retain the School Board.  The parent forms must have guidelines and structure.  Our alternative would be to keep the School Board but improve it."

"195”, “Yes"

"196”, “A basic template which could be changed for local needs."

"197”, “No"

"198”, “No consistent standards are required across all areas."

"199”, “In (our) case, the parent body would hope to determine the constitution as this would seem to be a more democratic process."

"200”, “Have a two year trial period when 'constitution' determined locally.  Do survey of how this has developed - audit before and after.  Have more parents been involved?  Draw up guidelines from good practice shown so there is some uniformity and coherence 'across the board'"

"201”, “No status quo should be maintained."

"202”, “The Constitution is the right of any school and proves more independence for the school."

"203”, “It should be determined in conjunction with the local EA.  It would not be an easy task for parents to do this on their own."

"204”, “Yes"

"205”, “Has to be some general parameters.  If you only had 2 willing parents from a school roll of 200, do these 2 have the right to determine constitution ?"

"206”, “No, I do not agree with approach.
National 'constitution' would ensure consistency, continuity and eradicate any dubiety."

"207”, “No - since a group of parents holding the same view on a particular subject area could bias the constitution, where as this is less likely on a school board as the members are carefully selected to be representative of the community as a hole, with the school as PART of a wider community."

"208”, “Would be better for national constitution."

"209”, “No.  I think there should be set rules and regulations."

"210”, “Initially with local authority - allowing for certain local flexibility."

"211”, “Yes but within the guidance from the education authority."

"212”, “Do not agree as a free for all will not lead to a consistent level of quality involvement.
Should have minimum compulsory arrangement with options for wider activities if desired."

"213”, “There seems to be a huge assumption that current Board and PTA members will agree to set up the new forums and will continue to be involved.  There is no guarantee that more parents will be involved and current Board / PTA members could be alienated.
We are satisfied with the current system and would prefer to spend our time dealing with issues affecting the school and the parents."

"214”, “Yes as above  (  Yes, if parent forums agreed to be the way forward.  )"

"215”, “Do not agree, feel parents may be enthusiastic in the beginning, but fall away.  Worry is that 'constitution' would not be maintained."

"216”, “No"

"217”, “Blank"

"218”, “No"

"219”, “Blank"

"220”, “No"

"221”, “This question is a bit premature."

"222”, “Not applicable.  Do not agree with changes to existing legal obligations and believe a tried and tested National scheme preferable."

"223”, “No.  We believe that the scope and constitution of parent bodies (school boards) should be clearly, nationally prescribed as should the obligation of the local education authorities to support and empower these of parent bodies (school boards).  We cannot see a system where every school and every local authority has a separate view on how things should be done can be made to work.  We fear that we would be left with the lowest common denominator of parental involvement."

"224”, “"

"225”, “No"

"226”, “No
Maintain the status quo"

"227”, “No - ""tweak"" the existing legislation."

"228”, “We do not agree with this approach.  The current format provides the structure required."

"229”, “No"

"230”, “Blank"

"231”, “Same as above  ( Yes.  If they work along side SSBA and parents. )"

"232”, “"

"233”, “No - ""constitutions"" should be drawn up nationally."

"234”, “The education authority should provide a ""template"" constitution which could be amended to suit individual requirements."

"235”, “Blank"

"236”, “Yes, useful to have L/A advice re constitution."

"237”, “"

"238”, “No.  This approach is again too vague."

"239”, “No not all, must have national guidelines by the Scottish Exec."

"240”, “No, as do not agree with Bill, but if to happen, how could parents do this alone ?  Legal help required so Education Authority would have to be involved.  BUT why completely change what we already have ?"

"241”, “No.  Again why change the existing School Boards."

"242”, “'Model' constitution required.  Especially on a legalities.  Constraint on numbers for the forum also required guidance."

"243”, “Got to be done in partnership with local authority.
Specialist area setting out a constitution."

"244”, “Yes, within board guideline to ensure the forum is operating appropriately."

"245”, “Very dangerous, leads to inconsistency - one issue forums - confusion.  ""Tweak the School Board Act"" and don't try to mend whay aint broke""."

"246”, “"

"247”, “"

"248”, “Yes - we agree with this approach"

"249”, “Do parents generally understand the difficulties and have the time for this?  This would mean parents and teachers being bogged down with non productive discussion over he aim of the forums which in theory could be altered frequently.  Where would be the managerial discipline?"

"250”, “Yes"

"251”, “Any 'constitution' must be agreed both locally and nationally.  History again shows that some local authorities have been more supportive of parental involvement than others when working with School Boards.  Scottish Executive should give draft/model constitution  for parents forum to base their one on."

"252”, “"

"253”, “"

"254”, “No we suggest tweaking the present School Board system"

"255”, “No - there would be too much variation between schools.  The constitution minimum requirements need to be specified and enforced."

"256”, “Yes"

"257”, “No - we don't agree with this approach"

"258”, “We favour a blanket approach - legislation and goals should be set out making each Board equal.  We are not in favour of a constitution."

"259”, “No - Both should contain some guidelines and LA should produce 'skeleton' constitution that can be adapted for local circumstances."

"260”, “If forums are decided upon as the best way forward then a framework should be agreed with the Council."

"261”, “Happy to have a template for parents to follow and amend if desired."

"262”, “Don't want education authority to decide a set constitution"

"263”, “Disagree - standards have to be agreed nationally"

"264”, “No a template must be provided given the possible responsibility with staff issues and taxpayer's money/due accountability such as audited accounts therefore elections and minutes must be ensured to give the body proper status and accountability.  Minutes must also be taken on any decisions taken."

"265”, “Yes with guidance and monitoring by the education authority"

"266”, “There should be national core elements that allowed for local flexibility.  It would be very difficult for an education authority to support many different constitutions within that authority."

"267”, “"

"268”, “"

"269”, “Standardised Constitutions are best option - every school group working to same rules."

"270”, “No"

"271”, “Yes - again I feel guidance would be required"

"272”, “No - we consider if the education authority supported the status quo and provide additional resources to encourage parents enrolment then this would result in strengthening the current system."

"273”, “No - Work through School Boards and school staff."

"274”, “Again this is ridiculous bureaucracy.  Parents change/move on - what if new ones don't like the existing 'constitution'?  We're not looking at government here - just the education of our children."

"275”, “We simply cannot envisage parents going through this process."

"276”, “Yes - leave to the Board to determine its content."

"277”, “No - leave existing system of elected School Boards.  This question is too open ended.  A School Board has to have a formal constitution and a set of principles.  For a local constitution to be determined, people could make up anything and they could have no commitment to the school or council.  Not it would be chaotic.  Some parents would only have their own child's interests at heart, some might highjack the forums to grind a particular axe, some may be more focused only on social aspects of the school and not on the more strategic aspects that are necessary.  A constitution would need to be prescribed as to what they are focusing on."

"278”, “No - this is a mandate for chaos.  Keep the current regulation and make some minor adjustments where improvements can be made."

"279”, “No - if each Board had its own constitution this would place an unnecessary burden on the authority.  They would need to ensure each constitution was correct and legal.  In my opinion the constitution as it stands is ok.  Why change something which works."

"280”, “"

"281”, “"

"282”, “Constitution should be standard through out Scotland.  Local variations will confuse."

"283”, “Yes, however guidelines and / or templates should be available to identify boundaries of roles and responsibilities that forums may assume."

"284”, “One comment was - simple model should be available, to be adapted according to local needs.
2 replied yes with comments: model constitution as guidance: as long as it is agreed by a large proportion of parents.
2 replied No with comment appears vague.  Why change what is in place ?"

"285”, “"

"286”, “NB It is the view of (our) school board that these questions are too prescriptive in nature and do not give an opportunity to address some fundamental matters raised by the proposed new bill as drafted.  Please see our response in the additional comments box."

"287”, “Re-inventing the wheel."

"288”, “No (as above).  Not able to answer this as we are wholly against the creation of parent forums."

"289”, “"

"290”, “"

"291”, “We, as a school board, representing the views of parents whose children attend (our)Primary School, are unanimously rejecting the new proposal, and are against abolishment of the Scottish School Board 1988 Act."

"292”, “"

"293”, “"

"294”, “No, see our answers to questions 5 ( No, this is too open. The parent community will not be able to decide the means of appointment without a statutory structure to give guidance.) and 8 (No, we are not in agreement of a major change from the present arrangements for school boards.)."

"295”, “One of the strengths of School Boards was that all Boards operated under a statutory constitution, which allowed common working practices across Scotland. The new legislation allowing individual parental forums to decide on their own particular constitution could lead to major differences in how they will operate. I think that there should be some commonality in whatever constitution is adopted by the proposed parental forums."

"296”, “"

"297”, “No - this is too loose and open to abuse and undue influence. We should be looking to making the existing school boards more accessible to the parents."

"298”, “"

"299”, “"

"300”, “"

"301”, “"

"302”, “"

"303”, “"

"304”, “Locally determined constitutional rights for parent forums would result in an unmanageable relationship for all parties.  Ultimately such untenable relationships fail resulting in significant exposure and frustration.  The current constitutional rights granted by existing legislation should remain since they are generally perceived as being effective for those parents who wish to be actively involved in the school community.  Those parents who are not
 currently active can approach the existing bodies to raise concerns, queries or to become more proactive in their children's education. "

"305”, “"

"306”, “Initial structure should be well defined and not subject to any change.  Once constituted there could be a degree of local autonomy for parts of the board.  This would do away with the idea of one size fits all.
"

"307”, “"

"308”, “"

"309”, “"

"310”, “It would be impossible to give a definite view without first having seen some examples of constitutions. However if the Forums were all to adopt a different constitutions how could parents know how they were being run?"

"311”, “We do not agree with the draft Bill and feel the responsibility of determining the constitution and membership of a forum would deter parents from taking part.

We would suggest keeping the existing legislation and tweaking it to bring it in line with the current good practice of School Boards and PTA arrangements as reflected in our recent HMI report."

"312”, “"

"313”, “"

"314”, “Yes - with guidance"

"315”, “"

"316”, “No - we disagree with this approach because it would lead to inconsistency across the parent representative bodies formed which would not necessarily guarantee adequate and equal parent representation in each group.  A democratic process is also necessary for electing members to provide accountability and responsibility."

"317”, “There needs to be a se of standards which are followed, as there currently are with School Boards.  Very concerned about the option for Head not to be present at parent forum meetings.  Parent forums could become a 'free for all' for the more vocal parents.  Standards need to be kept and the interests of the whole school should be addressed not just a minority."

"318”, “Do not agree with the Bill"

"319”, “No - All school Boards/forum must sing from the same hymn sheet otherwise a general parental involvement across the country will have no united front - not good for the pupils!"

"320”, “No - we think it has to be an agreed legislative constitution that parents must adhere to nationally."

"321”, “This could overburden parents and discourage them.  Inconsistency across authority and country would result."

"322”, “The legality of the 1988 Act is important.  We do not agree with a forum but would like to alter certain aspects of the Act."

"323”, “No - each Board already operates under strict guidelines as laid down in the present Act."

"324”, “No a common constitution would ensure a more cohesive approach.  We would be concerned that families moving between schools could be confused by differing systems."

"325”, “Yes"

"326”, “We would favour abolishing ""red tape"".  While welcoming local elements included within a ""Constitution"" we would wish to see consistency across schools maintained."

"327”, “This seriously undermines the real responsibilities of parents and could be interpreted as providing parents with an unrealistic sense of rights and 'power'  The statutory rights currently held by School Boards is decidedly more important to how parents can make a significant contribution and encouraging parents to draw up their own constitution in no way replaces that.  Retention of School Boards should be of primary concern."

"328”, “Yes"

"329”, “No - many Board members do not have experiences of preparing formal documents and we feel this proposal is a backward step and more non effective than at present."

"330”, “Too woolly - needs to be more formality - open to minority rule."

"331”, “"

"332”, “Leaving the determination of constitutions to each forum would be enormously wasteful of the forums' time.  It is much better that all the parent bodies within each authority area had the sae constitution and even that there was a standard constitution for all schools in Scotland."

"333”, “Education authority scheme set up initially for 2 to 3 years then a more flexible framework along the lines in this draft bill could be brought in. "

"334”, “Guidance would surely be necessary to achieve a balanced constitution which can achieve the relevant objectives, perhaps these should be a time allocated for the constitution to stand so it cannot be constantly changed with each new whim."

"335”, “Agreed by the parents."

"336”, “Yes - this is a very acceptable 'open door' approach."

"337”, “School Boards remain as they are."

"338”, “Do not agree with this approach.  Schools Boards structure ample.  Standard practice across country ensures same criterion for all schools/parents."

"339”, “No"

"340”, “"

"341”, “No - This is too open.  The parent community will not be able to decide the means of appointment without a statutory structure to give guidance.  "

"342”, “A constitution at least would be a precedent/starting point for a forum.  It would maintain some uniformity of approach."

"343”, “School boards have the same constitution to ensure a degree of uniformity. This makes it easy to understand the role and responsibilities of the Board. Organisations that work have firm structures, not the woolly suggestions included in the draft bill."

"344”, “If the proposed model is enacted, we agree with this suggestion.

Actually, we see this question as rather ironic - it is suggested that School Boards are too formal, yet here we have a suggestion which might make Parent Forums formal in a similar way. We see value in formality which helps ensure the tasks are attended to.
"

"345”, “NO -  This might be considered a nice idea by education strategists in their 'think tanks' - but it fails the practical test of how it might be operationally enabled.  As previously discussed - we support incremental refinement of the existing mechanisms in place for Scottish School Boards."

"346”, “There is an issue of consistency. If the make up of the constitution is left to each parent forum there could be difficulty within the education authority managing these potentially different constitutions.

Minimum standards should be agreed and set within constitutions across, a single authority/Scotland.

Will the members of parent forums have the necessary skills to draw up their own constitution? There may be the opportunity to migrate existing constitutions.

Minimum 'duties' and remits as well as maximum limits for involvement of the parent forum should be put in place.

The constitution, initially applied by the education authority, may be amended as the forum evolves.
"

"347”, “There is an issue with consistency. At the very least minimum standards should be set and agreed across an Authority. EAs should be encouraged to provide a skeleton constitution. "

"348”, “Again, only on the assumption that parent forums are the way forward, then the flexibility to establish ground rules for running the forum locally is welcome. We however advocate that the initial education authority scheme should be built around best practice for these sorts of bodies, thereby hopefully reducing the amount of re-work any one forum will need to do to make it work for them."

"349”, “A national framework is desirable to allow parents across Scotland an entitlement to equal participation in partnership with schools.  Parity across local authorities is desirable.  Within the national framework there should be sufficient flexibility to allow for some local variations.  The constitution for each parent forum should include a code of conduct for the forum."

"350”, “The impact of allowing each Parent Forum to decide its own operational arrangements, including constitution, means that a very disparate range of organisational structures and practices will occur.  How does this then facilitate joint working between Parent Forums even in the same school cluster, let alone across an education authority area or nationally?
A key strength of School Boards, given their similar structure, is an ability to work together effectively and provide consistent feedback to the education authority on key strategic, policy, financial and operational issues. Examples of best practice already exist.  It is essential the Parental Forums have real responsibilities and powers if they are to represent parents effectively and it is unclear how this can be achieved within the model of delivery proposed by the Scottish Executive.
"

"351”, “"

"352”, “"

"353”, “"

"354”, “Again, as for question 5, a proper formulated set of constitutional rules should be given at least in the first instance as a guideline.  Existing school boards already follow a constitution which works well for a structured group."

"355”, “We agree with this as already stated in Q8 above."

"356”, “"

"357”, “No.  We do not see the need for School Forums.  Some more local flexibility might be appropriate but under the existing School Board legislation.  Locally determined 'constitutions' would lead to a lack of uniformity/ consistency and ultimately the School Board/ Forum body could be eroded as a valid statutory body because every one would be different."

"358”, “There appear to be a lot of problems with this approach. Yes, increased flexibility would be desirable - for instance, in order to allow for more parents to be on the School Board, for representation from each school year, or each community served by the school, or from different ethnic groups etc.

However, it would be totally inappropriate for a Parent Forum to consist of only one parent.  An absolute minimum of two should be required, whatever the size of the school and the minimum should increase with the size of the school.

If the Parent Forum is to be responsible for any decision making it will be necessary for minutes of meetings to be taken. Likewise, if it is to be accountable to parents, minutes will be necessary.

Giving parents ""absolute freedom to decide on the arrangements for the new parent forum"" and to determine the forum's constitution, gives the opportunity for the Parent Forum to be totally unaccountable. Lack of structure may simply mean the Parent Forum becomes the vehicle for a few zealots or that it ceases to exist at all.

It is unclear what the purpose of the Parent Forum is intended to be? Is it intended to be a decision- making body? Is it intended to be a body for the School to consult about policy documents, etc?  Is it intended to provide a forum for the informal exchange of ideas? Just saying that it can be whatever parents want it to be is not very helpful, given that most parents do not have any strong views on this.
"

"359”, “"

"360”, “Initially by the authority - the flexibility. Overview maintained by the authority. Continued support from Education Authority."

"361”, “- No - should be national approach to allow all such forums to operate in same way but with maximum flexibility."

"362”, “NO  The Constitution is an extremely important working document.  A parent led constitution could become a ""talking shop"" piece of paper, and could be overcome by ""vigilantes"" setting their own agenda.  An education authority scheme could over-rule - with Councillors rather than parents being involved in senior appointments and decision making for the benefit of their School
"

"363”, “"

"364”, “"

"365”, “"

"366”, “N / A"

"367”, “"

"368”, “"

"369”, “No - I do not agree.  Continual monitoring of the 1988 Act and appropriate 'tweaking of it is necessary."

"370”, “Local constitutions are best.  They need to be tailored to the school and its needs."

"371”, “No - the existing system works well."

"372”, “Require ""exemplar"" so that local adaptations could be made as required."

"373”, “N/A"

"374”, “Yes - 5 groups - draft constitution could be amended to suit each school and approved by EA, basic flexible guidelines provided
No - 1 group - basic constitution should apply to all parent forums, added to locally as required."

"375”, “No this is far too vague."

"376”, “No I think the Bill is too ad hoc.  There is a great chance that personal issues could affect the forum.  It will be hard to involve everyone."

"377”, “Having different constitutions to be determined by each forum would be a logistical nightmare for the education authority.  We offer no suggestion for an alternative as we do not agree with the basic principle in the first instance."

"378”, “Local determination would be inappropriate unless it was within a general set of guidelines.  Flexibility is useful for each school but within a framework."

"379”, “School Boards have the same constitution to ensure a degree of uniformity.  his makes it easy to understand the role and responsibilities of the Board.  Organisations that work have firm structures, not the woolly suggestions included in the Draft Bill."

"380”, “I think that there would be considerable diversity between schools unless education authority was involved.  If pupils moved from one authority to another discrepancies may be confusing for parents.  'Leaving' things usually means nothing happens!"

"381”, “This raises the possibility of huge inequalities and inconsistencies across the educational landscape.  There are clear procedures in place with existing School Board which removes the problems of inequality and inconsistency."

"382”, “Too much chance of personal issues affecting forum and I can't see how this can be socially inclusive."

"383”, “Our Board thinks there should be one constitution determined by the education authority after consultation with the parents.  This would provide structure and guidance to make forums purposeful."

"384”, “I agree with this approach."

"385”, “Perhaps a few common principles would be a useful basis with room for local issues to be overlaid."

"386”, “Good idea."

"387”, “A framework and guidance should be provided by the local authority."

"388”, “Need to be more supportive of current SB arrangements and build and develop rather than start from scratch."

"389”, “Constitution should be determined locally to reflect the requirements of each school."

"390”, “Again such an approach risks variation and disadvantage in some cases.  Relies on commitment/ability."

"391”, “No - all parent forums must be established under the same constitution.  This should b included within the act.  One of the key features of the School Board legislation is the standard constitution that all School Boards have to adhere to."

"392”, “Yes and No - I think there should be a national exemplar detailing fundamental objectives with room for additional local objectives."

"393”, “A constitution needs credibility and valid reasons for establishment.  It need sot be determined by Education Authority or School Board Act.  It needs to be prescribed and ties in with legislation e.g. Standard of Schools Act."

"394”, “No - you need structure and obligatory elements as the School Boards have in place already."

"395”, “No.  You require structure in any order of society."

"396”, “No - need structure and standardisation.  Keep School Boards."

"397”, “"

"398”, “No - need to have consistency of approach as well as structure."

"399”, “No - all schools have to conform to same."

"400”, “No - need standard constitution so all schools have to conform to same."

"401”, “No"

"402”, “No - this should be specified."

"403”, “"

"404”, “Again, if parent forums are introduced some guidance or support on constitutions is essential.  The claim made in the consultation document is that parents are put off by the formality of School Boards.  Nothing would be more calculated to deter such parents from involvement if their first task is to write a constitution from scratch.  There are obviously various ways in which guidance could be given, including a range of alternatives defined nationally or by the education authority. The concept of a model constitution might be helpful for this purpose."

"405”, “No.  The constitution of any body should be consistent throughout Scotland.  Frameworks should be prepared.  Leaving each individual group to decide on its constitution could lead to many different types of group.  The strength of Boards is consistency.
"

"406”, “We agree that local variations are appropriate.  Nevertheless, once again the energy needed to establish a constitution from scratch might be better used in other ways.
"

"407”, “ No, this is far too vague and will frighten parents off from being involved. We would suggest a menu of
 possible Forum structures with the relevant constitutions attached. We feel this approach of ""make it up
 as you go along "" is an abdication of responsibility on behalf of the Scottish Executive. If School
 Boards are to be abolished then it is incumbent on the Executive to define a better alternative or set of
 alternatives for schools to take up. Without this there will be no confidence in Forums or their role
 within the school and wider education setting."

"408”, “"

"409”, “No.  I am not in favour of repeal of the 1988 Act.  If you allow individual bodies to determine how they conduct business Education Authorities would not be able to cope with several different practices which would lead to chaos and confusion. Very bad idea!"

"410”, “"

"411”, “"

"412”, “Few parents would have the interest and commitment needed to work out what the constitution of the local Parent Forum should be.

Having no limit to the size of the Parent Forum (or School Board) could be a problem if too many people wanted to be on it.  But it would be better if the number of parent members could be greater than is currently the case for the School Board (4 for our school).  We do not like the idea that a Parent Forum could consist of just one parent, and do not think it should be open to a Parent Forum to choose this.

For some people the current 4 year term of office seems like a big commitment - and may be a bit off putting.  But it would not be appropriate for people to be able to remain on the School Board as long as they liked - some parents have children attending a school for 14 years or more.  If a person who was working ""to their own agenda"" got onto the Parent Forum and could stay for 14 years, they could totally skew things.  A single person serving for a long time could also mean they were difficult to replace when they did eventually leave.  A Parent Forum should not be able to decide that there will be no limit to the length of time a parent can serve.

Many parents are probably unaware that School Board meetings are open to anybody to attend, and fewer still would probably feel comfortable attending.  However, it is appropriate that all parents should be able to attend, for instance, if the School Board is going to discuss something of importance to their own child.  A Parent Forum should not be able to decide that non-members cannot attend meetings.

The School Board/Parent Forum meetings require structure and to be minuted - it is not appropriate that it would be up to the parents involved to decide whether to minute meetings, etc.  This should be a requirement.

In view of these factors, it is not appropriate that parents themselves should be completely free to determine the Parent Forum's constitution.  This could result in a Parent Forum being less, rather than more representative than the current School Boards, and less, rather than more, accountable.
"

"413”, “"

"414”, “Blank"

"415”, “"

"416”, “"

"417”, “"

"418”, “"

"419”, “Yes, in the event that the Bill is enacted, School Board representatives in (our Region) would be keen to discuss and develop a model constitution that can be used as a template within the county but amended to suit individual schools."

"420”, “"

"421”, “"

"422”, “"

"423”, “No. Specific criteria on the objective and aim of the proposed parent forums need to be clearly defined to ensure that the purpose of the draft bill ""to improve parents involvement in schools"" results in a certain standard and quality of the participation rather than the wide range and varying degree of participation which might occur if the forum is not constituted.

 There is no evidence that the draft bill will actually increase the involvement of parents and without a constitution or detailed regulation on proceedings of meetings, members may remain for unspecified times resulting in a greater risk of the formation of cliques.

 Without any legislative requirement of the groups to be constituted or structured in terms of management there is a greater risk of parents not being included in the communication loop, with the likelihood of them becoming further detached from the process.

 Issues such as conflict of interest are not covered within the draft bill. Within the School Board legislation there is an obligation on members to declare interest and allows for transparent and open consideration of all issues."

"424”, “This question assumes new parental forums will be formed - WE DO NOT AGREE and therefore School Boards should remain with the current constitution in place.

Should, through popular demand School Boards be abolished then the initial forum constitution should be set up using education authority guidelines - allowing the same constitution to (be) echoed throughout the authority."

"425”, “"

"426”, “One of the main strengths of the School Board is that they have standards i.e. rules to follow. By allowing forums to decided their own agenda, all uniformity in boards is lost. Also lack of interest meantime, leaving only the interested parents to have their say - may become a free for all for the more vocal parents.
Concerned about the option for Headteacher not to be present at Parent Forum meetings. What can be discussed without the input of the Headteacher? In order to be accountable, a structure will be necessary, with some back-up from Education Authorities re structure."

"427”, “Yes"

"428”, “The impact of allowing each Parent Forum to decide its own operational arrangements, including constitution, means that a very disparate range of organizational structures and practices will occur.  How does this then facilitate joint working between Parent Forums even in the same school cluster, let alone across an education authority area or nationally.

A key strength of School Boards, given their similar structure, is an ability to work together effectively and provide consistent feedback to the education authority on key strategic, policy, financial and operational issues.  Examples of best practice already exist.
It is essential the Parental Forums have real responsibilities and powers if they are to represent parents effectively and it is unclear how this can be achieved within the model of delivery proposed by the Scottish Executive.
"

"429”, “The Board does not agree with this approach as the members disagree with the concept of the parent forum.  Determining the constitution locally gives carte blanche to interest groups.  Minor improvements could be made to the existing School Boards Act.  A valuable aspect of the current legislation is the provision of a uniform framework with published minutes. The Board does not agree with education authorities setting the constitutions."

"430”, “It should be mandatory for Education Authorities to propose a constitution for Parent Forums in their area. This would definitely be the best way forward in assisting parents set up forums. It is further considered that current School Boards and PTA's should be involved in the process."

"431”, “Definitely not, for the reason's outlined in our response to Question 5.  Whilst greater flexibility, in the existing parental representation arrangements, is certainly to be welcomed - see our responses to previous questions - we feel the absence of any significant organisational structure would make the new parent forums unworkable, chaotic and open to abuse (by potential development of unrepresentative agendas).  The current draft bill does increase flexibility - but also appears to create an organisational vacuum, which would need to be filled by education authorities and parents.  Certainly it is unlikely that parents, at least, would be attracted to this unnecessary challenge.  The draft bill also does not appear to address many of the areas of responsibility of the Scottish Executive, which its own research suggested - and so it would be comforting to see this aspect addressed in the next redraft."

"432”, “Certain elements of the forum's constitution should be mandatory -
- A constitution should be mandatory
- Meetings should be documented and documentation should be accessible
- Named individuals should not be discussed - not appropriate for this forum - could lead to witch hunts.
- Appointment of office bearers
- Terms of off ice
Lack of these elements could potentially lead to a lack of structure, cliques forming, no communication to school or parents about meetings, forums being dominated and controlled by individuals with their own agenda.  Fundamentally, the opposite of what the Scottish Executive is trying to achieve.
"

"433”, “No"

"434”, “The Board has significant concerns about leaving the drafting of a constitution to the parent forum. There is a danger that individual agendas could then be pursued, the details of confidential matters pertaining to one teacher or pupil discussed inappropriately at open meetings with no recourse available for removal of members. The distinction between the duties referred to at the beginning of this response becomes blurred under such a system and the aim of greater parental involvement could be lost.  If the parent forum loses credibility, there is a danger that parents and teaching staff will wish to dissociate themselves from the body.  In such a situation, how will the education authority reconcile the actions of the forum with the fact that the forum is an agent of the authority?

If the education authority were to draft the constitution, the Board would question whether it would be any different from the framework prescribed in the School Boards (Scotland) Act 1988.
"

"435”, “Our Working Group 'agreed that it would seem unusual to describe the proposed forums as having ""constitutions"" at all if they have an absence of requirements to keep agendas; minutes or indeed consist of any office bearers.
Additionally, the wording of this question (the use of the words ""the forum's constitution to be..."")implies that this ""Consultation"" process is merely a formality; that proposals will go through regardless of what is said by those being consulted. This is a cause for concern.
Suggestion: keep what is already in place as is.  We do not agree with this approach because parents have not agreed to be led and represented by forums at this stage.  If they do agree, then who says they will be looking for help?  This is a redundant question: of course parents should have a choice as to who would determine the constitution of a forum as defined by such proposals as the Draft Bill outlines - but only if the majority agree to be represented by such forums.
"

"436”, “No.  We do not agree with the bill and the establishment of parent forums in the first place, therefore this question is not applicable."

"437”, “Disagree.
- There is an issue of consistency. If the make up of the constitution is left to each parent forum there could be difficulty within the education authority managing these potentially different constitutions.
- Minimum standards should be agreed and set within constitutions across a single authority/Scotland.
"

"438”, “We believe that the existing arrangements are satisfactory.  Local constitutions will lead to a chaotic situation that will be difficult for the education authority to work with.   Note: As before the question assumes that the Draft Bill arrangements are inevitable and is closed to the existing arrangements or a minor modification of them.
"

"439”, “No.  I think a standard 'constitution' is needed across the country.  If the constitution were to be determined in this way parents members may be tempted to use it to further their own agenda. Individuals may use the forum to promote the needs of their own child/children rather than for all children."

"440”, “There needs to be a model or structure in place to guide this important area."

"441”, “It has to be based on a model forum at the very least to give some form of stability and consistency between the forums."

"442”, “Yes"

"443”, “"

"444”, “"

"445”, “"

"446”, “Yes.  We welcome local involvement."

"447”, “Yes"

"448”, “"

"449”, “No - stay as currently"

"450”, “No, we feel it should be standardised."

"451”, “Do not agree"

"452”, “"

"453”, “Yes - by the parents."

"454”, “No.  A basic minimum requirement constitution should be provided which could be added to locally."

"455”, “"

"456”, “"

"457”, “Yes"

"458”, “The education authority would need to be at the centre of brining parents together, helping to decide on a 'constitution'.  The usual parents with strong opinions will come to the front and make themselves heard."

"459”, “Yes with guidelines."

"460”, “No.  Leave the school board as it is."

"461”, “Result - anarchy.  Parents who are put off by elections wont draft constitutions."

"462”, “Constitution should be a writing frame - applies to all.  There must be some core needs that should be mandatory."

"463”, “School boards retained."

"464”, “No.  N/A - we have our own constitutions which are fine."

"465”, “NO - No consistency across Scotland.  Structure is essential as in other organisations.  Agenda & minuted meetings essential for inclusiveness and dissemination of information."

"466”, “Disagree as above."

"467”, “Constitution under Education Authority scheme limited to max 3 models."

"468”, “No, has to be a standard throughout Scotland so stay with school boards."

"469”, “Yes, in consultation with existing Boards."

"470”, “Yes within centrally determined parameters i.e. length of commitment / service."

"471”, “We don't feel that parents want this level of involvement.  They would be happy to operate within established guidelines."

"472”, “This is a recipe for disaster / constitution should be formulated and backed with legislation .  Retain school boards."

"473”, “No.  Few people, apart from experts in the education authorities, would have  the knowledge and insight to cover every aspect of the constitution."

"474”, “The broad outline of ""Constitution"" should be applied nationally with a degree of flexibility at local level.  As is the case within the current system."

"475”, “We do not agree to a local approach of determining the forum's constitution.  We strongly feel that there needs to be a national framework."

"476”, “Before suggesting this - I would like to see the local authority's forum 'constitution' .  References to the forum's constitution and purposes are vague and non-specific and give scope to abuse or self-interest from motivated parents (apathy and lack of time mean that many parents would not have their interests / opinions served)."

"477”, “No.  It is unlikely that parents would be able to form a constitution without some external help.  Who would decide what was reasonable for the forum ?  Legislation is the clearest way forward."

"478”, “No, we disagree.  In increasing the options available to groups in the development of constitutions and the removing of the requirements for a national guideline is fraught with danger and open to abuse.  We would suggest a nationally agreed constitution with some level of flexibility to add changes.  This approach removes the option of constitutions being ""hijacked"" by either the authority or the parent group and also maintains the right of parents to be represented in the management of the child's school."

"479”, “The constitution of the school boards is vital to ensure that parents voices are heard and that the views of staff , the community and the education authority are taken into account.  Parents are never going to be taken seriously if they don't have staff, community representatives and the education authority's views to take into account."

"480”, “Help from the education authority would be necessary in establishing a parent forum, especially in schools which have not had a school board."

"481”, “No.  If each forum has it's own constitution, then the collective power of parents representative will be diluted."

"482”, “Hierarchy would be necessary to establish a forum and constitution at least initially - especially where school boards have not previously existed."

"483”, “There appears to be the danger of too much scope for vast diversity and dilution.    The education authority has to have some input and control over constitutions in their respective areas."

"484”, “Per question 8.  (It will serve EA and us all very well if they were to propose plug and play models, but this forums could adapt leaving things wholly free from will not work.  (A good plug and play model is a variation on the theme of the school board).)"

"485”, “This would be difficult and a 'turn' off to parents also some parents would dominate over others - the loudest being heard only.  Have usually prescribed as now."

Parent Forums - Draft Bill